Renee777

I wonder sometimes if what we go through is actually unavoidable. Why would any god make it to where there creation would suffer so much? I lnow so many people and I've yet to find one that hasn't wenty through something that seems so harsh it should almost be unreal.I wonder why, if we're such fond creation of an almighty force that we would be put through such trials.

Traveller

Well when you think about it with out those hardships, we wouldnt really learn. i'm i dont lik it (pain , being hurt and all that Sh*t) but i learn alot from it.

You just need to remember that with all the bad, good comes also. there are always many ways to look at a situation

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Kathryn

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My life began not so long ago

nikki x0x

jamie: "without suffering there'd be no compassion"
landon: "yeah well tell that to those who suffer" - a walk to remember.

i guess that suffering is just a part of life, something unaviodable.
we're put throught trials, to grow stronger and to learn things.

"as far as im concerned, tradegies happen. what are you gonna do? give up?
quit? no, i realize now that when your heart breaks, you gotta fight like hell to
make sure your still alive. because you are. & that pain you feel ? thats life. the
confusion & fear. thats there to remind you that somewhere out there there's
something better and that something is worth fighting for. "

i think that quote says it best.

Jellybean

pain is a natural part of life. what would life be without it?
no one wants a life that's all butterflies and rainbows, it would make for a very boring life.. and it's something everyone needs to be able to deal with.

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"Everything in this room is eatable, even i'm eatable. But that my dear children is called cannibalism, and is in fact frowned upon in most societies." Johnny Depp
WOOT - [Sims Addict]

prieraceae

without pain how would one distinguish pleasure?

RNarcisism

Those who suffer must be sustained by a hope that can never be contradicted by any reality or be disposed of by any fulfillment. Pain is a neccesary part of life, but should not be viewed as a "necessary evil". One should not view pain as something which must be experienced in order to gain something else. Rather, pain is something to handle with, for lack of a better word, masochism. Not masochism in the usual sense, but in the sense of being changed into something positive. How one wishes to do that is a personal choice.

Hanna

Yes, exactly. well kind of...
I don't understand people not believing in god or being angry at god because of the suffering that he lets people go through...
we need suffering and pain to appreciate the good stuff.
If there was no suffering, the good stuff wouldn't be great...it would just be nice....which would be...nice....but not at all great! you see?

Plus you need the opposites! tha parallels! *flails arms crazily* CANT YOU PEOPLE SEE YOU'RE CRAZY! (joke...but do you know what i mean?)

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"Photographer? I thought you were a Jazz-Poet?"
"I am! I span many genres. They call me the genre span-er"
"They call you the spanner"
Vince Noir and Howard Moon

RNarcisism

Suppose you experience just a tiny bit of harm, physical or mental. At some point afterwards, you experience the most beneficial and least harmful experience, again physical or mental. Perhaps this experience is the complete lack of pain in essense. Once you experience the lack of pain, you automatically know that it is great, and better then normal. You don't need to feel or experience a pain on the same level to be able to comprehend the greatness of the anti-pain experience. Therefore, even without pain, it would still be possible for good stuff to be great.

Of course, that's just an allegory. It is impossible to not experience pain of some kind at some point.

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The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.

- Friedrich Nietzsche

Hanna

I guess so...*pouts*

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"Photographer? I thought you were a Jazz-Poet?"
"I am! I span many genres. They call me the genre span-er"
"They call you the spanner"
Vince Noir and Howard Moon

RNarcisism

What's wrong? If my theory is true, then it's a cause for celebration. It would be a method of doing away with the bad parts of pain.

__________________
The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.

- Friedrich Nietzsche

Hanna

This is true....

It's just...my theory went all crumbley....*lookes at crumbled theory on the floor*

However you are right, and it's good, because I have an open mind and am ready to be altered by other peoples theories and opinions...looks like I was....But I still think there should be opposites...

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"Photographer? I thought you were a Jazz-Poet?"
"I am! I span many genres. They call me the genre span-er"
"They call you the spanner"
Vince Noir and Howard Moon

RNarcisism

Your theory didn't crumble. Who's to say that I am correct in thinking the way that I do?

If I may ask, would you give me more information on your theory? I'm interested in seeing why you insist that there must be opposites.

__________________
The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.

- Friedrich Nietzsche

Hanna

I don't have much more to it. I am not very good at coming up with theories which have substantial arguments and evidence to back them up (I debated once....the experience scarred me...I mean I can talk in public no problem...school talks and i am an actor for god's sake!....but debating? never -ever- again...)

It's just how I -feel- really...I can see that we learn from pain and use it later in a posative way. Also, if i have been feeling bad, or negative things have happened and I am feeling down, then someone makes me laugh, I appreciate the laughter more (though, that's a very unsubstantial example).
For some reason it annoys me when people blame "God" or don't believe he is real because of the pain in the world. "How could he let so many people suffer? How can he create a world with war and disease and hatred?"
No one has ever told me this, but I just see it as the balance of things.....there is posative and negative, and I think they both need to be there...

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"Photographer? I thought you were a Jazz-Poet?"
"I am! I span many genres. They call me the genre span-er"
"They call you the spanner"
Vince Noir and Howard Moon

RNarcisism

Fair enough.

The idea that we take pain and use it as a positive way is exactly what I said. Useing pain in a "masochism " way. If somebody makes you laugh, and you appreciate it more due to previously being sad, would you not experience the happiness just as much as if you had not been sad? The lack of that happiness would only be bleak in the sense that you never would of experienced it. But, had this pain never occured, you would neither lament about the sadness of the loss of the happiness which would get you over the sadness because you would not experience either of them.

I don't believe in God. But, I don't believe God doesn't exist because of the fact that there is pain in the world. My reason goes far beyond that. In fact, the pain and suffering in the world is a good reason to believe in God.

For I will at this time send all my plagues upon thine heart, and upon thy servants, and upon thy people; that thou mayest know that there is none like me in all the earth. - Exodus 9:14

The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name. - Exodus 15:3

And my wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword; and your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless. - Exodus 22:24

God brought him forth out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn: he shall eat up the nations his enemies, and shall break their bones, and pierce them through with his arrows. - Numbers 24:8

There's alot more, but I'll end it with:

I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD do all these things. - Isaiah 45:7

Therefore, it is indeed a very weak arguement that God doesn't exist because evil exists. But, I have a feeling that my reason for believing that (as presented here) is different from the usual.

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The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.

- Friedrich Nietzsche

Hanna

YESSS! *cheer* I am glad I have a good way of pointing this out to those annoying people now...heh....

But yes, there are other reasons for not believing....all the inconsistancies and schtuff...

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"Photographer? I thought you were a Jazz-Poet?"
"I am! I span many genres. They call me the genre span-er"
"They call you the spanner"
Vince Noir and Howard Moon